Hungary Help

[kacyds]

In 1900-04, Hungary issued the "Turul" and Crown of St. Stephen stamp series.  The earlier ones were issued with a watermark 135 ( Crown in Oval or Circle, Sideways) and Perf 12 x 11.5.

The problem I have is that these two stamps are Watermark 135 but are Perf 12, on both sides.  Scott doesnt have a listing for this type of perf. The Scott# for these two stamps if they were perf 12 x 11.5 would be 49 and 52.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.

[Butterfly]

Sorry, can't help. My very old 1964 Michel doesn't list a perf 12 variety.
I do however have one perf 12 Turul stamp also, so I expect a good Hungary specialized catalogue would have them listed.

[kacyds]

Thanks for trying Butterflies!!!!

[Butterfly]

I'm beginning to wonder if the designation 11 1/2 is all that accurate. Suppose a few of the stamps were perfed while still pretty wet and that the paper then shrunk more in the vertical direction on drying (more horizontal then vertical fibers). Or maybe they end up 12 1/4 x 11 3/4 if equal shrinkage.
my2cents

[rayb]

Gibbons list the perfs for the Crown in Circle watermark as 11 1/2 x 11 1/2 Line (the scarce ones) and 12 x 11 3/4 Comb (the common ones). I'm no expert but these look pretty clearly Comb to me. That being so I would expect them to be approx 12 x 11 3/4 and I entirely agree with Butterflies that a discrepancy of 1/4 in perf is insignificant since it is entirely explicable by shrinkage.

[Philatarium]

kacyds  Kris -- I just looked, and I don't have the Michel for Hungary. There's a good chance that the perforations and their variations would be accurately listed in there.

I did not learn this until several years ago, but Scott rounds to the nearest half-perf, which I think does a major disservice to the community. So that's why I try to pick up Michel catalogs at a good price whenever I can, because, especially on the earlier material, they are much more thorough about perfs, paper types, and ink colors. (It also seems like the closer the country is to Germany, the better they are at it.)

Anyway, it might be worth asking either here more specifically or elsewhere to see if anyone has a Michel for Hungary that they could check for you.

-- Dave

[kacyds]

Here is a Hungarian site I came across on the web. They dont mention anything about a perf 12. Also I noticed that they have the Steiner pages for Hungary that you can print.

www.hungarianphilately.org/intro_stamps/Intro_sectional/defaultpage.htm

[Philatarium]

Kris, do you mind my asking what kind (even brand) of perf gauge you're using?

[Philatarium]

I guess what I'm really asking is, is it one that is a "stair-step" type (just showing perfs at 1/2 or 1/4 increments?), or is it a "continuous" function type, that gives pretty accurate readings on fractionals perfs?

-- Dave

[kacyds]

I use three. The Mystic one has 1/4 perfs....

[kacyds]

Both stamp are Perf 12 and not 11 3/4 or 12 1/4. I checked that last night before I started this thread.

[Philatarium]

Thanks! And are you getting consistent readings across them at 12? Or is it close?

(Sorry -- not trying cross-examine you for trial!)

[Philatarium]

Thanks, Kris -- I just read your last post, which crossed with mine.

It might be worth contacting someone at the philatelic society you linked to a little bit earlier and asking them if this perf variation is known? It may well be in the specialist literature.

[kacyds]

Dont worry, I know you trying to help. Yes all three is Perf 12, dead on. I also put them next to some known U.S stamps that are Perf 12 and they matched up perfectly.

[Philatarium]

Thanks, Kris -- Let's page khj and see if he has some specialist literature on this. I know he's been busy for the last several weeks and not able to check in much, but perhaps he'll have a thought about this.

Something else I've done when I seem to have an undocumented perf variety is to see if a specialist dealer in that field has a price list and lists perf variations.

[Philatarium]

Jul 14, 2014 13:00:42 GMT -5 Philatarium said:

... Let's page khj   ...

As I wrote that, I had a flashback to Bewitched:  

(More here, for the un-Bewitched among us:    www.harpiesbizarre.com/bombay.htm

[kacyds]

Dave, Your picture and link is not working or is it on my side?!?!?!

[Butterfly]

The Great Britain Hungarian Philatelic Society has an information service which might also be worth trying.

www.hpsgb.com/

[Philatarium]

Jul 14, 2014 13:13:05 GMT -5 kacyds said:

Dave, Your picture and link is not working or is it on my side?!?!?!

I had 2 different problems.  Pic host failed, so I just hosted pic myself and updated link, and then the website link had spaces in it because I tried to close the parenthesis.

Hopefully both now fixed!

[kacyds]

This is what we really need for Hungary stamps....