This is Getting Discouraging

[Cephus]

So here's a relatively long story. I just got a co-worker interested in collecting stamps by telling him the Latvia stamp origin story and he's decided that he wants to collect pre-Soviet Latvia, mint singles, 1919-1940. No, it's not a really good place to start a beginner collection but that's what he's settled on. The mint stamps are not expensive, in fact, they are typically cheaper than postally used and they should be widely available, even for stamps a century old.

The problem is, they're not. I can't find a single dealer anywhere that has more than a handful. HipStamp doesn't, Delcampe doesn't, eBay doesn't, independent dealers that I can find, they don't either. This is harder than it ought to be in the modern Internet-enabled world-wide marketplace.

So I ask on a stamp forum. Anyone have any ideas where I can look so this guy can get his collection started? Simple question, you either do or you don't. Every single response is unhelpful, suggestions for $600 auctions of stamps he doesn't want to collect, links to sellers who only sell used or covers or whatever, etc. Lots of the responses are rude. "Go here! This is simple! Didn't you even try?" Yeah, except you aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to the question. Thanks for the suggestion and all, but it's not helpful.

Others report having the same problem. Stamps that ought to be easily available, they're not. My wife, who collects Japan, is looking for modern mint issues. You can't get them anywhere, at least not in any cohesive fashion. She'd love to just buy year sets but there aren't any, except for the last year or two from Japan Post. What about the past 30 years? No clue. Again, lots of rude commentary, lots of links to the first 5 things you get when you search Google, none of which actually do a thing. I'm grateful that you're helping but you're not helping because you're not paying attention, nor caring at all.

This is where I start to wonder what we have to offer as a community to new collectors when we don't even care enough to take the time to try. How we can actually care about the future of the hobby if we're going to just yell at people for asking challenging questions. "Google it" doesn't help. If you don't know, say you don't know. That's fine. Being rude, that doesn't help anyone and, had I been a new collector, I might have said screw this and walked away. Everyone acts like this is simple once you get beyond the absurdly simple-to-collect countries. Someone even suggested that my wife bid on a $10k auction for some modern stamps. That's just stupid.

How are we, as a collecting community, actually being welcoming to newcomers? How is it that in the modern world, this stuff that shouldn't be hard to find, it's so hard to find? We're hemorrhaging dealers, we're hemorrhaging shows, we're losing everything. As much as I love doing this and I've been doing it for 40+ years, I can certainly see where newcomers are going to be frustrated, both by the difficulty in finding materials and in the general rudeness that I've seen of late. I'm certainly not blaming everyone, none of this even happened on this forum, but how are we supposed to convince new, excited collectors to stick around if this is the kind of reception that they receive?

I don't know. Just ranting, I guess. Back to work trying to get this guy the stamps he needs.

[khj]

This is a major problem among more than one stamp forum. Not all stamp forums welcome beginners. You ask the wrong question, you get laughed out or accused of something... we're not talking about obvious peddlers trying to get into a forum to sell/advertise something, but honest-to-goodness beginners. Some of us long-time collectors forget that it took us many years to learn some of the lessons we learned, and expect "beginners" to jump through 20 hoops to the experience level we have today. How many of us started off by buying $600 worth of stamps? I started off by clipping/soaking stamps off envelopes that people were throwing away.

As for as your Latvian collecting buddy, please invite to our forum. I'm sure some Stamp Bear with more stamps than they should, has some Latvia that they can either give/sell them once they reach the minimum post requirements.

As for modern mint Japan for your wife, you can ask Philatarium. I'm not sure how recent his mint Japan reaches, but can't hurt to ask him. For me, my post-1980 Japan is mostly used Prefectures.

[khj]

For your Latvia-collecting friend:

Latvia 1920 Banknote-Back Semi-Postals
Show your Latvia stamps here

[Cephus]

Feb 11, 2022 19:08:22 GMT -5 khj said:

This is a major problem among more than one stamp forum. Not all stamp forums welcome beginners. You ask the wrong question, you get laughed out or accused of something... we're not talking about obvious peddlers trying to get into a forum to sell/advertise something, but honest-to-goodness beginners. Some of us long-time collectors forget that it took us many years to learn some of the lessons we learned, and expect "beginners" to jump through 20 hoops to the experience level we have today. How many of us started off by buying $600 worth of stamps? I started off by clipping/soaking stamps off envelopes that people were throwing away.

As for as your Latvian collecting buddy, please invite to our forum. I'm sure some Stamp Bear with more stamps than they should, has some Latvia that they can either give/sell them once they reach the minimum post requirements.

As for modern mint Japan for your wife, you can ask Philatarium . I'm not sure how recent his mint Japan reaches, but can't hurt to ask him. For me, my post-1980 Japan is mostly used Prefectures.

Agreed. I was even thinking recently about how I got into stamps back in the day. It was only because there were stamps coming in the mail every day and I soaked them off of envelopes. Today, how many stamps do you actually get in the mail anymore? It's getting rare even on philatelic mail. And once you have an interest, what then? Stamp shops are almost a thing of the past. I used to just ride my bike to the dozen stamp stores in my area and browse. People can't even do that anymore. What about stamp shows? They're few and far between today and even the ones that survive, they're tiny compared to when I got started. GASS advertises about 75 dealers. I was looking at the brochure from a stamp show I remember going to in 1982 that advertised 160 dealers and that wasn't even a particularly big show. How far we've all fallen. I just find the whole thing sad.

[I.M. DeBear]

We've known the twin 10-year-old girls next door since they were born. It's interesting to see how they're always challenging each other to delve deepest into realms new to them. Since they're now moving into the new house their parents just finished building in Howell, which is much more countrified than here, and them being home-schooled, and winter in full swing, and with the plague on and all, they're probably not going to get out much for a while. Perceiving a great opportunity, earlier today I gave them my two 'nickel' shoe boxes of USA and foreign stamps, plus an old USPS guide to stamps, and some stock sheets as a lovely parting gift.
I expect that seed to sprout nicely. 

[youpiao]

Hi Cephus. I saw your post and the replies (and even replied, myself, about the HipStamp search). I know how you’re feeling. You were right to come over here. This IS the friendliest stamp forum on the net. For that matter your friend should join, here. We’ll help to get him going with his collection.
Welcome.

Ted

[coastwatcher]

Cephus , Has your friend tried Delcampe for Latvian stamps? Being based in Europe, they are probably more likely to have them than HipStamp, which, of course, is based in the US. Delcampe currently has 37,270 Latvian stamps listed, but I’m unsure of the ratio between modern and classic issues.

As far as Japanese stamps for your wife goes, you might be able to get some help finding a good dealer from the Japan Philatelic Society Foundation, who, by the way, publish an excellent 3 volume Japanese stamp catalog. Be aware though, that, although a lot of the site is in English, much of it is in Japanese.

Another option for finding a dealer that specializes in Japanese stamps is The International Society for Japanese Philately. Their site is completely in English and they publish a journal called Japanese Philately, of which you can purchase back issues, which may contain ads from dealers who specialize in Japanese stamps. 

I know it’s not much, but I hope that the above helps!

[Cephus]

Feb 12, 2022 3:03:19 GMT -5 coastwatcher said:

Cephus , Has your friend tried Delcampe for Latvian stamps? Being based in Europe, they are probably more likely to have them than HipStamp, which, of course, is based in the US. Delcampe currently has 37,270 Latvian stamps listed, but I’m unsure of the ratio between modern and classic issues.

As far as Japanese stamps for your wife goes, you might be able to get some help finding a good dealer from the Japan Philatelic Society Foundation, who, by the way, publish an excellent 3 volume Japanese stamp catalog. Be aware though, that, although a lot of the site is in English, much of it is in Japanese.

Another option for finding a dealer that specializes in Japanese stamps is The International Society for Japanese Philately. Their site is completely in English and they publish a journal called Japanese Philately, of which you can purchase back issues, which may contain ads from dealers who specialize in Japanese stamps. 

I know it’s not much, but I hope that the above helps!

Yes, she is a member of both, has all of the catalogs (all in Japanese, which is fine since my oldest daughter is a professional Japanese translator). As for Latvia, most of the stamps are modern, which is certainly understandable. He's picked a difficult area to collect for his first go.

[youpiao]

Cephus Mystic has Latvia number 1 for sale (the famous map back issue) at $9.95 for a block of 6. Only thing is they say you will receive either the imperforate or perforate block. You can’t specify.

www.mysticstamp.com/Products/Worldwide/MA1508/Latvia/

I also found this YouTube Short of some dude showing his block of Latvia number 1 he got from Mystic.

[angore]

I would suggest looking at Colnect but the downside is a premium membership is required to do trades or buy/sell as I see it. You can get a free trial.  I see many Latvia stamps for sale but have not used the service myself. It is more collector to collector as it facilitates trades and for sale so not likely to pick it up in google searches.

Stamporama has approvals/auctions and see just 2 books that got a hit using Latvia. SOR is now a fee to play forum. Disclaimer: I am a moderator at Stamporama.

Also, I have posted wanted to buy country notices on several forums and often get some responses. 

As for forum friendliness to newcomers, I only know one forum (stampboards) whose moderator is just plain mean at times to anyone. But most forums have characters that can be annoying at times. 

Now, I will ignore any posts from new people that ask "how much is this is worth" (the one post wonders). I have no issue with people asking basic questions that could be found in searches so dislike the "use the search" responses.  It often takes knowledge to know how to narrow down a search for something you may not know well plus it does create forum activity (a good thing).  A search can generate many hits with many pages of discussion to read since discussions are rarely synthesized into summaries.  

[Cephus]

Feb 12, 2022 7:03:56 GMT -5 youpiao said:

Cephus Mystic has Latvia number 1 for sale (the famous map back issue) at $9.95 for a block of 6. Only thing is they say you will receive either the imperforate or perforate block. You can’t specify.

www.mysticstamp.com/Products/Worldwide/MA1508/Latvia/

I also found this YouTube Short of some dude showing his block of Latvia number 1 he got from Mystic.

Latvia 1 is the easy one, it's all of the other issues that are a problem. There are so many Latvia 1s out there that it's a common collecting pursuit to try to reconstruct the map on the back of the stamps.

Thanks though.

[Cephus]

Feb 12, 2022 7:39:25 GMT -5 angore said:

I would suggest looking at Colnect but the downside is a premium membership is required to do trades or buy/sell as I see it. You can get a free trial.  I see many Latvia stamps for sale but have not used the service myself. It is more collector to collector as it facilitates trades and for sale so not likely to pick it up in google searches.

Stamporama has approvals/auctions and see just 2 books that got a hit using Latvia. SOR is now a fee to play forum. Disclaimer: I am a moderator at Stamporama.

Also, I have posted wanted to buy country notices on several forums and often get some responses. 

As for forum friendliness to newcomers, I only know one forum (stampboards) whose moderator is just plain mean at times to anyone. But most forums have characters that can be annoying at times. 

Now, I will ignore any posts from new people that ask "how much is this is worth" (the one post wonders). I have no issue with people asking basic questions that could be found in searches so dislike the "use the search" responses.  It often takes knowledge to know how to narrow down a search for something you may not know well plus it does create forum activity (a good thing).  A search can generate many hits with many pages of discussion to read since discussions are rarely synthesized into summaries.  

Stamporama's approvals only have used books available, at least for Japan. Tons of books available, 100% of them used. That doesn't help my wife at all. I didn't see any Latvia specific but I admit I didn't look that closely yet. I've also looked at Colnect and they don't really have that much when it comes to Latveria (or Japan), especially when you're looking for mint.

And yes, Glen Stephens is a douchebag. I've had an account there for many years but I only read a few things and never, ever participate. He loves to ban people, then keep their accounts around so he can claim to have a massive membership. It is impossible to remove your account. The overwhelming majority of accounts there are dead accounts. He's an ass. Whoever recommended him at last year's APS awards was out of their mind. Most likely, it was Glen himself. He's got an ego that his crappy stamp business in Australia can't cash.

Yes, I agree with you on the "I inherited/found/came across/stole these stamps, now I want to flip them for a huge profit!" posts. You can't win there. Nobody is remotely grateful for the help and mostly, if you give them the inevitable bad news, they're going to get upset that you dashed their ill-founded dreams. I don't help out many people unless I get the impression they're not trying to make a profit or they seem genuinely curious about the stamps themselves and not their financial value. I never provide values to anyone. What got me in this situation was the fact that they didn't even bother to read the question at all. It was just "trot out canned response #5" because you really don't care. If this is how they're going to treat newcomers to the hobby, it's no wonder the hobby is shrinking. Trust me, this is nothing like it was back in the late 70s or early 80s when I got started. It isn't getting better, no matter what people want to tell themselves. I'm starting to figure out why.

[Phil]

Cephus , Maybe tell your buddy another story. Maybe about Machins or Trains on Stamps - maybe he'll bite and start collecting in a direction that's a bit more accessible.

And I second what khj , said ---- get him over to this forum and we'll take care of him.

[youpiao]

Feb 12, 2022 13:41:53 GMT -5 Cephus said:

. I've also looked at Colnect and they don't really have that much when it comes to Latveria

Well, that IS a tough country to complete. Here are the only two I know.

[Cephus]

Just as an aside, we had a talk during the week and he's going to reconsider what he wants to do. Over last weekend, he subscribed to StampAlbums.com, downloaded and printed the 1919-1940 Steiner pages for Latvia and was feeling a bit depressed that he'd spent so much time putting together a home for stamps that he might not be able to get. I told him that he can focus on more than one country, or more than one topic and I aimed him at the ATA. Maybe there are existing interests that he has that he can collect the stamps for and he said he'd look. He can keep the Latvia collection for when he finds something and can work on other things the rest of the time. He does have access to all of the other Steiner pages, depending on what he wants to do.

So it looks like we might not have lost him yet. We'll have to see where this goes.

[khj]

Sounds like good advice. He can just temporarily set aside the Latvia collection and work on something else. I do that all the time.

Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye out for older Latvia collections. Previously Baltic States had not been high on my list. It's been awhile since a very good one (in terms of content and price) turned up. But with all the older collections being unloaded in the past decade, I think it's only a matter of time & patience for the optimal one. I'd be more than happy to peel off what I don't need for him.

[Cephus]

Feb 18, 2022 17:21:58 GMT -5 khj said:

Sounds like good advice. He can just temporarily set aside the Latvia collection and work on something else. I do that all the time.

Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye out for older Latvia collections. Previously Baltic States had not been high on my list. It's been awhile since a very good one (in terms of content and price) turned up. But with all the older collections being unloaded in the past decade, I think it's only a matter of time & patience for the optimal one. I'd be more than happy to peel off what I don't need for him.

I will pass along your kind offer on Monday. We were actually talking about dead countries and I think I saw a spark when I mentioned that Iceland wasn't going to be issuing stamps any more. I e-mailed him a couple of dead country links to Colnect for the weekend, we'll see what he decides. I think that the idea of having a complete set appeals to him.

[khj]

Excellent choice! Iceland is one of my favorite countries, although I still have a ways to go to get to 90%. Not even sure I've gotten to 80%, yet.

[khj]

Here's the first couple of pages from my Iceland album that still need a lot of work. I started posting them, but unfortunately had to pack it back up.

k's Iceland album

[I.M. DeBear]

Oh yeah, definitely got luv for Iceland